Think Magazine arranged a different kind of debate on the possibility of alien contact. Generally, the debate is over weather aliens exist. Our phone discussion started with the aliens’ existence as a given and addressed whether this is a good thing or a bad thing.
David Jacobs has worked as an abduction researcher for the last 32 years. His book The THREAT: Revealing the Secret Alien Agenda argues that aliens have been abducting humans in wide numbers in order to breed with them to create a hybrid species; a species that he fears is being groomed to take over the planet. Jacobs describes himself as the most pessimistic about the aliens’ intentions.
David Uzal runs the New York office of Rael, an international cult led by a French journalist that believes that humans were created by aliens in a DNA laboratory. Now that humans have learned to manipulate DNA, the aliens want to return and for us to live with them on earth. Uzal believes the aliens’ intentions are good because they created us. We are their children.
Budd Hopkins is an author and artist specializing in UFO abduction research. He is author of The Intruders, Missing Time and Witnessed. Hopkins believes the aliens’ intentions are above all else self-serving, and that they are abducting humans in alarmingly high numbers.
THINK: Given the aliens exist and they have a superior intelligence, aren’t we at their mercy whether or not they are good or evil?
Budd Hopkins: It’s obvious that they hold all the cards in their hands. They have the technology. They have the ability to paralyze and to control people’s bodies and movements. Humans are completely at their disposal.
THINK: What is it about their behavior that could be perceived as evil intent?
BH: We know a great deal about their behavior. They lie consistently to the people they abduct. They tell people that it’s not going to hurt and it hurts. They also give people these screen memories where you see something that really is not there. The one case where it is very difficult to take seriously is one where someone says the aliens told me x, y or z.
One abductee for example, absolutely, passionately believed that the aliens were going to land in 1992 and make themselves known, because they had revealed this to him. He ran around giving talks and was absolutely passionate about it. It hasn’t happened, so the deceitfulness of their behavior is very clear.
On the other hand, we don’t see any evidence that they are Independence Day marauders out to blow up the Whitehouse and sink the Eiffel Tower. They have their very narrow specific agenda, and essential to that is deception of humans.
David Jacobs: I tend to take a little bit of a downbeat viewpoint. I don’t think this is a phenomenon that cares about us one way or the other. I don’t think it is in any way beneficial to us. One of the things that astounded us when we began understanding the parameters of this phenomenon was their enormous knowledge of human physiology and neurology. They can make neurological manipulations in people’s minds which allow them to think things or see things that are not true, and that technology puts us very much out of their league when it comes to trying to stop this process of abductions.
David Uzal: It is clear from all biblical texts that life on earth was created by extraterrestrials. I think earth’s people need some humility. We still think we are the center of the universe and that all aliens are obsessed with taking over the earth. Earth is a very primitive civilization. We think we have a little technology and they are going to steal it or enslave us. Westerners think that everybody who arrives in a new land is going to try and kill everybody and put people in slavery, because this is their practice.
The aliens are people full of love. Imagine you live on a desert island and you find there are people on another island. Are you going to kill the people or are you going to find brothers and sisters from another planet? Aliens have no intention to hurt us. Enslave us? They can do it in two days.
About these abductions – the United States must be a very special case because 95 percent of the abductions occur in the US. I have traveled around the world and I’ve never heard about so many abductions occurring.
BH: It’s worldwide. Just very recently I’ve been in England, Italy, the Netherlands, Brazil and Australia dealing with this problem. In the US there has been more careful investigation to the phenomenon and more attention paid to it and therefore more people have come forward. When I was in England years ago, someone was trying to tell me, “we don’t get this in England. ” Of course this happens in England, all the time. I’ve studied it.
The Brits are just not set up as well to study it. Cases were being rejected. I gave this lecture, “There is no child abuse in Iran. ” Has anyone ever heard of a case of child abuse in Iran? Must be an American phenomenon because that’s where we hear about it.”
THINK: In a lot of these abduction humans are told they are destroying the earth’s environment. If the aliens are so concerned for the environment, then maybe the earth is better of without the humans in power. With the proliferation of nuclear weapons and increasing environmental problems maybe the alien takeover will be a blessing for everyone.
DJ: There are many people that feel this way. They need to have some savior from the skies, who is godlike, to help them out of their misery. I personally don’t look forward to that. I think we need to help ourselves. We are in the process of solving these problems. We created them. We can deal with them. This is a human situation. We don’t need interference from aliens.
I would say to them that they can tend their planet and we’ll tend ours. All through history when societies that are less technologically advanced come in contact with societies that are technologically advanced, the original society always suffers and is sometimes destroyed. I can see this happening with this phenomenon. I do think there is a human desire for help coming from a lot of people who fell powerless or overwhelmed by the nightly news reports about the destruction of the environment.
In a childlike way, some people yearn for extraterrestrial help. It has n
othing to do with the abduction phenomenon although we do get this kind of message every once in a while. I personally believe when people are told this information by aliens it is for an entirely different purpose. I don’t for one minute think they are here to help the environment. If they were, they would have done it quite a while ago.
DU: I absolutely agree that they are not interfering in any way on this planet. They have sent some messengers, but it has been up to us whether we want to listen to them. They don’t want to interfere.
Otherwise, they would come right away to each country’s capitol. They want us to prove to them that we are intelligent beings and when we are ready, to invite them and hear their message. They don’t need to study us. They created us. They will only send some messengers and they will come only if we invite them.
THINK: How do you separate fact from fiction when dealing with people’s repressed memories of being abducted?
DJ: What we get is the spectrum of memory. People have a whole series of experiences that might be related to the abduction phenomenon which they think is related to seeing ghosts, religious figures and receiving communications from apparitions of spirits.
Often what we find is that it might be related to the abduction phenomenon. But Budd and I could write books just on people’s conscious memories of being abducted without resorting to hypnosis. However, we have learned that, although hypnosis can be very tricky, it is an excellent tool for having people remember all the memories of what happened to them.
THINK: (To Davis Jacobs) In your book you argue that aliens have been mating with humans, creating these hybrids which they have been grooming to come to earth and eventually take over.
DJ: This is a theme I’ve been hearing over and over with abductees; when these beings talk about the future, they talk about being with us as opposed to back on their home planet, wherever that may be. I wish that weren’t true. But I have to deal with the evidence as it comes out. That seems to be a dominant strain from people who don’t want to tell me that, who fear it, yet they have been told and they’ve begun to convince me.
THINK: What specifically will an alien takeover look like-how will human freedom be curtailed? Will humans become servants of the aliens?
DJ: I would certainly say that humans would be at the bottom of any pecking order. The ability the gray aliens and hybrids have far outstrips the abilities any normal humans have. Therefore, if there’s an integration, it is the humans that would suffer.
THINK: How close are the aliens to achieving this? DJ: Abductees have said it could happen anywhere between five and forty years. When the aliens talk about this, they always use the word soon. It will happen soon. I have been hearing that more and more.
BH: I’ve heard that it will occur soon, consistently, whatever that means. I must emphasize how deceptive alien behavior is. There might be a purpose behind what abductees are told. The future doesn’t exactly look rosy here. We have two popular science fiction myths; one is that they are going to come and blow everything up and the other is exactly the opposite, that they are coming to teach us wonderful things. In each case we are the center.
They are gods or devils. In actuality we are not the center. They have their own agenda. We are helpful to them for our DNA, that seems to be something they need very much, but they are not functioning as if we were enemies about to be conquered or friends about to be helped.
THINK: Why are the aliens creating these Hybrids? Are they having problems reproducing themselves? We don’t fully understand the reasons for it and neither do the abductees. If people were inventing or dreaming it, we’d know it-they’d tell us right off. That is a human thing to do: to have a reason for an action. We hope to have an answer soon, but that is one of the puzzles we have.
BH: Something that we have inferred is that the aliens have reached some kind of evolutionary dead end. They need to revivify their species. This is why they are taking sperm and ova samples and why they are doing this high level reproductive procedures. This is a sterile laboratory in which it seems the UFO occupants want to accept in their particular make-up human features which they feel are extremely important for their own survival. THINK: About the abductees-are the aliens preparing them for a special role?
DJ: Some abductees say they are being prepared for something. There is a feeling that something important is about to happen in their lifetime. I’ve been able to identify some of the roles the abductees might fulfill, which includes calming people when aliens integrate into society.
THINK: What would Rael have to say about the threat to humans posed by the aliens’ arrival?
DU: I would like to finish up with this because I’ve got to get going. I am quite satisfied with what I’ve been hearing because I was expecting to hear very scary things. Actually we are all more in agreement. The extraterrestrials have been mixing and breeding with us. It is written in holy texts. The purpose of life is to spread intelligent life in the universe.
We will go on to create life on another planet like we have been created. When we reach a certain level, we will travel great distances in space, but now we also possess the technology to kill ourselves; that is what will confront us in the next 30 years. If we do not control our aggressions and raise our consciousness, we will destroy ourselves.